13 SEER vs 15 SEER
read other post about new vs old seer. I just put on addition (23x30 2 story and another area that is 10x15 1 floor. I will also have a finished 23x30 basement not included above (basements not included in real estate calculations in my state but important for HVAC sizing) so with basement I will have about 3700 ft2., up from 1480. I will have a heat pump for upstairs and furnace/AC for downstairs. I live near Baltimore, house is 108 years old. addition essentially wrapped most of house so little of original is exterior now. that part that is exterior had siding stripped down to bare studs. areas that didn't have insulation were insulated and OSB put on and then resided. my question related to seer. if I am reading Carrier site correctly, going from 13 to 15 will save $8 for every $100 you spend in cooling--8%. the extra cost going from 13 to 15 for the two units seems to be about $1685. Lets say life expectancy of 10 years, I would need to save about $170/year to break even. given that AC only is on in June, July, August, Sept, I can't see anyway that getting 15 Seer is benficial? I would have to save $42.50 in each of these months for 10 years-meaning that I would have had to spend $530/month in AC use only! Now if I just wanted to be green OK but doesn't seem like it is going to save me money. Do my numbers look correct or am I not figuring this out correctly? thanks Don't forget that you will be using the heat pump in the winter so you will have savings then as well. Also why not go with a heat pump for both areas? Also the electric rates are going up all over so that $8 sounds low now but what about in two years. does the SEER rating have anything to do with heat pump efficiency when heating? I thought SEER was only for cooling and some other term was used for heating efficiency- HSPF (heating seasonal performance factor) now is this in any way related to SEER? does higher SEER mean higher HSPF? Or are they not related? Interestingly, noone mentioned HSPF. seems people only refer to the SEER rating? I guess I could ask what the HSPF rating for the units are. as far as two heat pumps the reason is that when it really gets cold, the heat pump runs nonstop and can't cool the place. my existing heat pump apparently does not have emergency heat (has it on thermostat but nothing happens when put it on) so maybe these new units are better but I have always preferred the warmth of a furnace. I currenty have a furnace for 1st floor and heat pump for second but need bigger units now. just bought a new tank too. never know which will be cheaper in few years -fuel or electric? Yes you will have savings on the heat pump in winter and you are not calculating in the increase in rates but it is what it is and payback over 10 years is a close call You could use a heat pump with a supplementary heating coil (gas or electric) for the basement instead of the furnace. The thing about it is, you really only need that warmth factor a small percentage of the year. So you are paying a premium the rest of the year (higher operating costs) just to get that warmth factor in the coldest part of the year. If you went with a HP w/supplemental heat, you get the best of both worlds. You'll often see COP as a measure of heating efficiency. A more efficient (cooling - EER or SEER) heat pump does not necessarily mean it has a better COP rating. You really do need to find data on each. Your original point, about 13 vs 15 SEER, is generally true - it's often hard to justify the upgrade when looked at from a simple payback perspective. There's no way to accurately predict the price of gas vs electric in 10 years. in the upstairs heat pump, he is proposing a back up heating coil (10 kW). I suppose this is what you are talking about. does this come on automatically if the heat pump itself can't reach the set temp in a certain amount of time? my current system has switch that you put to emergency heat (but it doesn't do any thing on this system so I suppose it doesn't have any backup?) do the new systems require you to manually put on the heating coil? so in general is heating oil/AC considered more expensive than a heat pump/back up coil? I know can't really predict future costs except that they both (heating oil and electricity) will be higher. for some reason not getting email notification of replies even though I have it checked? I believe heat pump is usually cheaper still as it runs very efficiently in mild weather. It is also my understanding that your backup or aux heat will kick in whenever the heat pump can't reach the desired temperature on it's own, say, during a cold snap. Originally Posted by hammerash in the upstairs heat pump, he is proposing a back up heating coil (10 kW). I suppose this is what you are talking about. Yep there's lots of different names for the same thing. Originally Posted by hammerash does this come on automatically if the heat pump itself can't reach the set temp in a certain amount of time? my current system has switch that you put to emergency heat (but it doesn't do any thing on this system so I suppose it doesn't have any backup?) do the new systems require you to manually put on the heating coil? Your going to need to ask him that. There's different ways to control it. One approach is to have an outdoor air sensor, and have it come on wherever the outdoor air reaches a certain temp, which you can adjust (ie you can change this, but it might start at -5 *F or something). Originally Posted by hammerash so in general is heating oil/AC considered more expensive than a heat pump/back up coil? I know can't really predict future costs except that they both (heating oil and electricity) will be higher. Well a heat pump is going to be more efficient, hands down. The only catch is if electricity goes way up in price, while gas/oil stays basically the same - then it's possible that the gas/oil approach will become cheaper. Also, running that back-up coil is going to cost you a lot of dollars, so if you go that route, try to minimize your use of that. You may be able to get a special rate from your electric company if you go all electric (they like that...big surprise) and they may offer a rebate too. Those can often be the deciding factor about what is cheaper. If there's anything recent history has taught us, it's that fuel costs are unpredictable. The events of 9/11/01 had a TREMENDOUS affect on energy costs. Who in the world could have predicted that??? The rather sudden recent rise is gasoline price is similar - totally unpredictable but nontheless has a huge impact.
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